Part 1


As much as we want to reach people that believe in pre-trib rapture we need to do it with love and not with over confidence. We must maintain peace and unity within the body of Christ if we want to be heard. Have I ever been insulted by someone that believes in pre-trib? Yes I have. The comment to me was this, "The problem with post-trib believers is that they cannot tell the difference between pre-trib and post-trib scripture." It wasn't said in a bad way, but neither was it said in love and yes it was intended to insult my intelligence, but nicely done. This was from one of my elders and I lost some respect for that person because of their over confidence in that situation.

One thing that I have learned is instead of telling them there is no pre-trib rapture, it is better to prove to them that some of the scriptures they use must be taken out of context to prove their perspective.

For example: Discuss that if the trumpet for the pre-trib and post-trib are different trumpets this is how it would have to conclude when it is finished.

We will use four scriptures:
1. Get them to read - 1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

2. Then get them to read - 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

3. Followed by this scripture - Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

After they have read all three scriptures ask them which trumpet was last - remember we are not trying to disprove pre-trib, we are merely proving that some of the scriptures do not line up with it. They will have to point to Matt 24:31 as the last trumpet.

4. After that get them to read this - Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

What this scripture is talking about is Jesus will be in heaven until it is time to come back to earth and restore all things. There will be no portal that opens up to receive the church into heaven and as a matter of fact, there is not one scripture that says the pre-trib church will be taken to heaven, they just assume it to be so. Once you have explained that to them, then point them back to 1Th 4:16 showing them that this scripture also speaks of his second coming and not the pre-trib because he 'descends' from heaven at the time to restore all things therefore the trumpet in 1Th 4:16 and Matt 24:31 have to be the same trumpet that is talked about in 1Co 15:52.

Please remember to do this with love and compassion - The church is all about love, truth and pointing them to Jesus because he is the way.

Plese visit - Different Trumpets and Same Trumpets - under the Pre-Trib section


Part 2


Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

If this is to the Jews, then everything that Jesus has to say after this scripture, will take place after the rapture because he is speaking of his second coming and not the pre-trib event, if indeed these are two separate events. Why would Jesus tell the pre-trib church to watch for signs of his second coming? To me that just doesn't make sense. So if the pre-trib church is still here during this time, then I would say it must be post-trib at this point.

Again I say that this does not disprove pre-trib but rather it proves that these scriptures point to the physical return of Jesus to the Earth. Secondly if a person believes in pre-trib, then there is no need to be looking for these events since his return will be imminent just before the signs of his second coming begin to unfold.

If the imminent teaching is correct, that means that no prophecy needs to take place before the rapture happens. Anyone that holds to these signs in Matt 24, as events that are leading up to the pre-trib rapture, then they are in contradicton to their own beliefs knowing that there are no prophecies that need to take place or that any have been givien to let the imminent believers know what to look for.

Matt 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Matt 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Luke 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

When we look at the parallel references between Luke and Matthew, all of these signs point to the time when Jesus will physically come down to Earth from Heaven and rule for a thousand years.

The upshot of this is this, no pre-trib believer can use any part of the olivet discourse to show signs that an imminent pre-trib rapture is about to happen as it points only to the second coming.

Part 3


In this part we will be discussing the imminent return and if it is even possible.

Yes, God can do anything he wants but he will not go back on his word.

Many pre-trib believers say that God still has prophets active in the world today and I happen to agree with them. But I have to ask this question, "Can a prophet prophesy, by the Spirit of God, that future events will take place with the thought of an imminent return?" If we stand on the side of imminency there is no way God would have his prophets tell of future events because it would have to be fulfilled before he could come back.

Conclusion: As an imminent believer you would have to stand on the side that God no longer has active prophets in the world today because everytime they prophesy, it puts a delay on the imminent return until it is fulfilled. The only other out come would be that the teaching of imminency is incorrect or there are many false prophets out there and some how their phrophecies are coming to pass.

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